Stephanie;
That’s fantastic!
Thanks for sharing this.
Best,
Steve
Seneca II Brake System
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As we were finishing a second (unsuccessful) brake bleeding attempt on our Seneca this week, a Cherokee 6 owner in a hangar nearby checked to see how we were doing. He suggested the following method to bleed the brakes:
He had one of us sit in the left seat holding the brakes down and the other sit in the right seat pumping the brakes while also pumping the handbrake. We did this individually on both the left and right main wheel B valves. It worked! Two days later we repeated this procedure just to ensure that we had indeed removed all the air and that the brakes are firm and holding. They are.We’re at a small airport in Western NC. The “shop” here is one mechanic whom we assisted in bleeding the brake system. No we didn’t do the extra step you mentioned, but will do that tomorrow in hopes of curing the problem. After that we’ll do the O rings in the parking brake cylinder. Fingers crossed…
I’ve talked to my favorite Seneca owner; he said he had the very same problem. Replaced the O-rings in the parking brake cylinder and the problem disappeared.
Question: did the shop do this when pressure bleeding the system? I ask because that’s an extra step that is no fun:
“Should the brake handle remain spongy, it
may be necessary to disconnect the bottom of the toe brake cylinders (next to the pedal)
and rotating the cylinder horizontally or even above horizontal and by use of the hand
brake alone, purge the air from the system.”Tried bleeding the brake system today, using Pressure Bleeding Procedure. Now we still have no brakes on the right and the Parking Brake has to be pumped to obtain pressure.
Wondering if it is a cylinder O ring issue???I just had this happen on my Apache. We replaced a caliper seal. Just had to bleed the brakes more. At this point it appears that’s all it was.
Thanks Steve,
Appreciate your reply. We’ll be working on this tomorrow and will let you know how it goes.
StefanieHi Stephanie;
Yep, that’s the cause. Air is compressible and brake fluid isn’t.
The brake bleeding procedure on Piper airplanes is described below:
7-66. BRAKE BLEEDING PROCEDURE (GRAVITY).
a. On both main landing gear wheel brake assemblies, attach a clear plastic hose to the brake bleeders
and extend into container partially filled with hydraulic fluid, MIL-PRF-5606H. The ends of this
hose should be submerged in the fluid. Open both bleeders approximately one and one-half to two
turns.
b. Fill the brake reservoir on the fire wall with hydraulic fluid, MIL-PRF-5606H.
c. Disconnect the toe brake cylinders from the pedal connection by removing clevis pin, washer and
cotter pin.
d. Invert toe brake cylinder to aid in releasing trapped air in the top of the cylinder.
e. Check toe brake pedals in the cockpit to ensure pedals are pulled full aft.
f. Pull the hand brake handle, pumping the master cylinder very slowly approximately 25 times until
fluid is observed passing through the clear plastic hoses at the wheel cylinder.
NOTE: Fluid level in the reservoir must be maintained to prevent air from entering in the line.
g. Tighten both wheel bleeders.
h. Pull hand brake until a firm handle is maintained. PIPER SENECA II SERVICE MANUAL
VII – LANDING GEAR AND BRAKE SYSTEM 01/01/09
1L18
7-67. BRAKE BLEEDING PROCEDURE (PRESSURE).
a. Place a small clear plastic hose on the vent tube of the brake reservoir and place a second small
clear plastic hose on the bleeder fitting on one main landing gear. Place the open ends of these tubes
in a suitable container to collect the fluid overflow. Open the bleeder fitting one or two turns.
b. On the other main gear, slide the hose of the pressure unit over the bleeder fitting then open the
fitting one or two turns and pressure fill the brake system with MIL-PRF-5606H fluid.
c. With fluid continually flowing through the brake system, SLOWLY and together actuate the hand
brake and the toe brake pedal of the side being bled, several times, to purge the cylinders of air. On
dual brake installations, both right and left pedals must be actuated.
NOTE: By watching the fluid pass through the plastic hose at the fluid reservoir and the bleeder
fitting on the gear being bled, it can be determined whether any air is left in the system. If
air bubbles are evident, filling of the system shall be continued until all the air is out of the
system and a steady flow of fluid is obtained. Should the brake handle remain spongy, it
may be necessary to disconnect the bottom of the toe brake cylinders (next to the pedal)
and rotating the cylinder horizontally or even above horizontal and by use of the hand
brake alone, purge the air from the system.
d. Close the open bleeder fitting on the gear being bled. Close the open bleeder fitting to which the
pressure hose is attached; then close the pressure unit and remove the hoses from the bleeder
fittings. Check the brakes for proper pedal pressure. Replace the caps over the bleeder fittings.
NOTE: It may be necessary to remove any trapped air in the top of the wheel brake unit by
applying pressure to the system with the brake hand lever and slowly opening the bleeder
and release the hand lever.
e. Repeat this procedure, if necessary, on the other gear.
f. Drain excess fluid from the reservoir to fluid level line with a syringe.
g. Make sure all lines are secure and all fittings are tight. It should be noted that on older master
cylinders where the hole for the bleeder seat is tapered, the bleeder seat/fitting should be torqued at
75 to 90 inch-pounds. On the newer cylinders where there is a straight hole, torque the seat until the
O-ring seals the hole.
Let me know if this solves your spongy brake problemSteve
Just had the pucks and discs replaced and a caliper seal replaced at a repair station. Now experiencing no parking brake and loss of brakes on the copilot side. Could the source of the problem be air in the system requiring bleeding?
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